In Conversation with Liz Griffiths: award-winning Set Decorator

Filmbase: Hi Liz, it's very quiet times right now, have you been working this year?

Liz Griffiths: Yes, I’ve done some Art Directing and Design on some Amazon ‘viral commercials’. I’d never even heard of them! We did one for Young Sherlock. It was filmed by a bunch of ‘creatives’, who are basically all the young influencer kids. It was good fun, but I’d never done anything like that. It just shows you: you have to keep your ear to the ground for whatever the next thing is. We’ve got so many transferable skills — don’t forget that. You can do lots of other things.

Filmbase: Let’s hear a bit about your career, because you started in theatre.

Liz Griffiths: I went to a youth theatre when I was a kid. I acted, sang, danced, did all that stuff, and also made furniture and did props. Then I went to [drama school] LAMDA as a Stage Manager. That was absolutely vital, because it taught you a structure. Being a stage management person was a great way to learn how to get the show ready on time. I learned lighting, sound, props making, stage management, and then I did lots of touring with different companies, in the UK and abroad.

I ended up at the Royal Shakespeare Company as their youngest ever ASM [Assistant Stage Manager], in the late 80s. We did lots of period shows — Richard II, Henry IV, lots of things with armoury and armour. I met all the makers, all the wonderful craftspeople who made the scabbards and the swords, and suddenly it wasn’t a small show anymore - it was a bigger project.

I left the RSC after my contract ended and got a job working in a props hire company. One of the guys who came in was [Production Designer] Ed Thomas. He’d just left Wimbledon School of Art and he was doing a film for no money called The Mystery of Edwin Drood. He said, “Do you want to do it? Come and be a Set Decorator.” I said, “What’s a set decorator?”

I did that in 1992, and I’ve been doing films and telly ever since.

It was all really good experience. For juniors today, it’s really important to know that there’s a whole other industry of suppliers, and they’re oil in the machine. You’ve got to really get on with them. You’ve got to know what new stock they’ve got. And, crucial - have that humility when you go in. Be personable. It’s a people job. Be polite and be communicative.

Would you recommend theatre as a potential option for people whose route into film and TV feels blocked at the moment?

I mean, if you can go around a market and do a whole set for 200 quid — it was probably about 50 quid in my day — it’s a really good resource. It’s a really good way to learn.

You see Set Decorators who haven’t got that structural experience in terms of scheduling, writing the show reports, or being in touch with actors — all that organisational stuff that I learned years ago — it stood me in really good stead and I think that’s maybe given me longevity, as well as the way that I try to respect people. All of us can always learn stuff all the time.

What advice would you have for people transferring from a different industry?

Liz Griffiths: I always think it’s like baking a cake. The recipe tends to be the same most times, but the ingredients are always different. People coming in have to learn the structure of film and TV. You don’t necessarily have to take a step down — it depends what you’ve done. 

When I started, I’d be there at half six with the coffee for whatever Set Decorator was there, going on a recce. You don’t argue about it. You’re just there. You come with energy, and you come with an “I’ll do anything, it’s fine” attitude. You have to have a bit of resilience and grit to start off, for sure.

And sometimes it doesn’t get that much easier when you’ve been doing it forever either. You still need to be a bit of a magician, and a bit of a juggler, and able to be the hand on the tiller.

We had a question sent in by a Filmbase member - as an aspiring set decorator, what skills are good to work on?

I hand-draw. I’ve always hand-drawn. Because I’ve been doing bigger things, like Netflix’s The Sandman, where we had over 200 sets, the Set Dec Department of makes is a big thing now. It’s always stuff I’ve done. I’ve always designed, I’ve always made stuff, so that is really useful.

Of course you also need to draw digitally - Photoshop and then Procreate on your iPad. Have that creative side, but also have your ExCel side, the structure and the organisation.

I’m still learning whenever I can - there were courses run this year by BECTU and I learned Movie Magic Scheduling, Movie Magic Budgeting, and there was a personal development course that I did. It was all free, and I thought, I’m not working, I’m going to do it.

Now, next time I’m doing my big budget or my labour flow, I could get my entertainment account set up and do a Movie Magic Scheduling format of it. You’ve got to be a bit of a magpie and learn different things as you go on.

On Avenue 5, for which you won an award for Production Design, your role was Supervising Det Decorator. Is that a role that’s going to become more common? 

To be quite frank, I was sick and tired of the Art Department having a Supervisor, but not Set Dec! This was a £10 million build, hundreds of sets. Lots of design, lots of making. I think Supervising Set Decorators are the way forward. Then you would have Senior Assistants, who potentially could be called Set Decorators, and we could get around this whole nonsense over who can be classified as Self-Employed by HMRC.

The Set Decorating role is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. We all get on well in an Art Department luckily!

We often hear from people coming into the industry who want to work on something big right away. But you spent quite a long time working on smaller-budget stuff. What do you gain from that experience?

I loved it. I did all the Mike Leigh films early on — Secrets & Lies with Alison Chitty — going around car boot sales looking for the right shade of mauve for Maurice’s living room, because “he’s that kind of guy”. With my theatre background, I’m very character-driven and on smaller shows, you get more hands-in-the-mud with all of that stuff.

Then, on larger shows, that experience is invaluable. You create these massive sets and you’ve suddenly got loads of money, but it’s still all about character. What does it feel like? What does it smell like? How would they use that space? 

Doing independent stuff is great experience. Sometimes it’s better experience, because there are fewer of you to do it, so you have to do a bit of everything. 

I think it’s probably going to go back to more like that. There are smaller independents coming back, so being flexible and working in that world is probably going to be useful.

Can we talk about your crewing up process? In quieter times like this, you may have your pick of trusted and experienced crew. But when things are busier, where do you look for people?

If people have emailed me or contacted me, I’ll absolutely give them first dibs, because they’ve made the effort. I might not have replied because I’ve been busy, but they’ve made an effort to come and find me. I may have met someone at a job interview and it didn’t work out for whatever reason - that happens all the time - but I remember people.

As much as that, I try to go within my pool of people I’ve worked with and promote them in a professional practice way. I want to develop people.

Finally, when you’re self-employed, it’s very easy to think, “I’m a failure if the phone hasn’t rung”. Or the phone rings and you think, “Oh God, I’d better do it.” While it’s quieter, have a think about what you like and the path you want to take.

Do you expect to see a portfolio when you’re talking to prospective Set Dec crew?

It’s lovely if people can, because it shows that people are organised. It’s not vital for me, but it depends what role they’re coming for. Personal referencing is by far the better tool, so put your references on your CVs — and please ring them and ask them first!

A portfolio is a conversation point in an interview. If you’ve got something physical, you can say, “That was Greens that did that, and I came and did that,” and you’re explaining that you understand the process of creating that picture.

You might not have ownership of the whole thing. But you can talk about it, that insight is what I’m looking for. I’m looking for people who understand what their job is, but they understand a bit more of the wider picture.

You’re very supportive of juniors. Somebody sent in a question saying they have a big fear of that first day and what is expected of them. What do you expect your juniors to know and be doing in those first few days?

Not to worry. Get there on time — and on time in this business means early. Put the kettle on, be around.

What I tend to do is get a structure organised. I’m a big believer in team meetings and talking to people. I would outline what I think is going to be happening over the next months of prep, what we know so far, what we don’t know so far, so we all feel we know the information.

I would provide the structure, so you don’t have to worry about it, because I’ll take on that responsibility. You just have to show up, be keen, and be open.

It is harder for younger people now. I get more people who are anxious about things, and that’s absolutely fine. When I was a junior, I lived in a squat for two years because I had no money, so I had to be tough and a bit streetwise to come to London. I don’t come from London. That’s not saying it’s anything better, it’s just different.

In the first days, I’ll probably give them a key bit of research to do, or have them help someone with petty cash, or make sure the office is running and we’ve got enough supplies, or help the Coordinator.

You mentioned Petty Cash. That’s quite a different kind of job in Set Dec, isn’t it?

I think it’s harder now because the traffic’s so horrendous! You’ve got to be prepared to be happy driving around in the car with a good podcast on, with a hands-free phone you can talk to, and be organised. Find out all the antiques fairs. Find out all the trade journals. Do some research when you’re not working. Which shops? What’s online? What’s Vinterior? What are the go-to places now?

It’s also that responsibility, because quite a lot of the time you are handling cash, and that is something that brings its own problems and responsibilities.

There was a very nasty incident last year where a Petty Cash Buyer was robbed on the street. Has anything changed since then?

She was on one of the big shows I did, and it was a big awakening call for all of us. We all moved in to support her, and hopefully she’s fed back that she got the support she needed.

It’s better when you’re going to a big market because there are a few of you around, and there’s a bit of a group. You’ve got to pal up with someone else.

I also try to make sure there are some guys in the team — and I know that sounds a bit sexist, but it’s not meant that way. I think there should be a mixture, so it’s not all women and not all young girls. There should be a mixture of people.

In this case I heard that you sent out the unit driver to accompany the Petty Cash Buyers.

Yes, you’ve got to use whatever you’ve got as a resource. It’s a tough one, but a lot of markets still rely on cash, and in a way I’m quite in favour of that. I think we should be seen as people who have integrity and honesty. Those skills are really important. Sometimes the bigger studios maybe don’t trust us as much as they should.

I think it’s good to keep these businesses going that rely on cash, personally.

Petty Cash is obviously a driving job, but does every Set Dec Assistant still need their own licence and car?

You’d need a driving licence, for sure. If you told me in advance that you didn’t have a car, I could potentially sort something out with Production.

But at the junior levels, there’s lots of chat about car allowances. The car allowance has stayed the same since before the dawn of time, so it’s a big battleground at the moment — that and kit rental.

Really, we all have to be autonomous. We all have to be able to function by ourselves. So I would say having a car and a driving licence is a basic requirement, sadly.

Let’s talk about the industry, because it is very quiet right now and there are a lot of crew feeling understandably worried. How do you feel about the summer ahead?

It feels really quiet. It’s these bubbles, isn’t it? If you’re in a little bubble and you’re going from job to job to job, you’re fine. Sometimes, for no reason, you’re not in one of those bubbles.

But it will turn around, and it will shift, and I’ll get something decent, and something will happen. You just have to be optimistic, but you also have to prepare for not earning money all of a sudden. It is difficult.

I’ve heard of more shows that are happening. I’ve had a few people text me about things. I think they’re going to be smaller shows. I think there are a couple of big ones — Ninja Turtles, someone said to me, was happening — and there are another couple I’ve had in a text that are bigger. But on the whole, I think it’s going to be smaller shows.

I’m going to be investigating other avenues in the meantime, for sure. You have to have Teflon shoulders and be really positive about what you’re doing.

I’ve spoken to more Designers in the past six or eight weeks than I’ve ever spoken to before, and some of them have gone, “Good God, I didn’t know you did all this, and you did that.” You’re planting seeds with people. It’s good planting-seed weather, so get out there, and you will reap what you sow.

There’s been an unrealistic amount of high-end TV shows since COVID, and before COVID. It was never like that. British design was never about all these massive shows. 

You’ve got to be a bit cannier. Be happy to do a show for two or three weeks, do small shows. Or maybe someone’s on a long show, you know them, and they don’t want to carry on for the last couple of months. Contact people you might not normally contact.

You mentioned that you took work outside the industry in quieter times in the past. Some more junior crew may not realise how common that used to be.

Yeah, you’re self-employed. The government doesn’t really support us, does it? 

We don’t get pensions, we don’t get that support in any way, so it’s incredibly hard. And it’s incredibly hard on those of us who are older and have bigger outgoings!

The industry changes. When I started, it was like, “We’re going to finish in November. February, there might be something, but we’re not sure.” So you learned to have this overarching sense of, I might need to go and work in a bar or something. I used to get Christmas jobs, because you just didn’t know.

It will always change, so you have to have your ear to the ground and learn to adapt.

You’re very active in BECTU. Can you tell us a bit about that? 

I think it’s really good to volunteer, whatever it is. The more groups you join, the better it is for you as an individual in the business world.

For me, supporting the rate card was a big thing. [Production Designer] Simon Bowles and I set that up when we were in the British Film Designers Guild. We used to get all the information by emailing people we knew around the industry. 

Being part of BECTU is an extension of that. There are a lot of naysayers, but it only works if you get involved and join in. I do the Art Department Branch Committee, and I thoroughly welcome anyone, if you’ve got time. It’s really worth it. You’ll find out what jobs are going on — that’s number one, top tip. You’ll find out what issues people who are working are dealing with, and it’s important for all of us to try to help everyone.

Construction didn’t get the amazing amount of pay they get compared to what we get by not joining the union. That’s how they got that massive pay rise.

You’ve committed to this industry, so what could be worse than getting involved in a few other things and finding out a bit more information? The Guild was a great one for me, but be involved in it. Don’t just join it.

Should the broader Art Department follow what Construction did, in terms of forcing a ratified ratecard?

Ratecards should be ratified. The thing we’re fighting at the moment is that the studios are supposedly doing their own ratecards. And of course it’s in the studio’s interest to keep it as low as possible.

I go in with my labour flow, and I will fight to the death to try to get it established. The other thing is that I go in with the Supervising Art Director, so we go in as a tag team right at the beginning. I’ve fought throughout the years for the Supervising Art Director and the Set Decorator to start at the same time. 

What should someone do if they’re offered a job that isn’t paid according to the BECTU ratecard?

It’s difficult. You probably have to take it, don’t you, if there’s nothing else going on? You can try. You can find out what role you’re doing and what other jobs are happening. That’s when networks are really important. You could ring someone like me who’s a bit experienced, who might have heard different things and might know different people doing different jobs.

At least then you can say, “Well, the assistant set dec on The Avengers is earning that.” There has to be a parity of show and a parity of role. Then at least you can try to negotiate.

It’s a tough time but keep your chin up. It’s going to be fine. Don’t worry. Give me a call!

Liz is running a Set Decorating Masterclass morning at Warner Bros Leavesden Studios on 1 June, at the Crew HQ building. Check the WB website for details.

Contact the Film and TV Charity about financial grants and mental health support - https://filmtvcharity.org.uk/get-support/#heading-224628